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	<title>Comments on: Cloud Event Processing vs Event Cloud Processing?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/index.php/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/</link>
	<description>Complex Event Processing (CEP)</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Hans</title>
		<link>http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/#comment-413</guid>
		<description>I posted to the forum a few days ago. 

Any set can be associated with many algebraic relations. You're never going to find one that is "the" overall relation. 

Who cares if you get events in a time order? Computers talk in sequences of bytes - so every set of events will come with an implicit ordering. Again, who cares? What matters is how the software uses the events; the use case imposes the set relations.

My advice: There are already terms for POSET ("POSET") and TOSET ("TOSET", "chain"). Let anyone who wants to use those terms, use them. Let stream and cloud revert to the IT based definitions that make sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted to the forum a few days ago. </p>
<p>Any set can be associated with many algebraic relations. You&#8217;re never going to find one that is &#8220;the&#8221; overall relation. </p>
<p>Who cares if you get events in a time order? Computers talk in sequences of bytes - so every set of events will come with an implicit ordering. Again, who cares? What matters is how the software uses the events; the use case imposes the set relations.</p>
<p>My advice: There are already terms for POSET (&#8221;POSET&#8221;) and TOSET (&#8221;TOSET&#8221;, &#8220;chain&#8221;). Let anyone who wants to use those terms, use them. Let stream and cloud revert to the IT based definitions that make sense.</p>
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		<title>By: vincent</title>
		<link>http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator>vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/#comment-412</guid>
		<description>Hi Hans - probably one for the discussion on the EPTS glossary at complexevents.com or ep-ts.com ... I wonder if a better definition for an "event stream" is as a particular type (i.e. time-ordered) of TOSET; the "event cloud" may or may not be made up of such streams. I guess its somewhat of an academic discussion, although the need to handle unordered vs ordered events is certainly a valid CEP technology characteristic.
Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Hans - probably one for the discussion on the EPTS glossary at complexevents.com or ep-ts.com &#8230; I wonder if a better definition for an &#8220;event stream&#8221; is as a particular type (i.e. time-ordered) of TOSET; the &#8220;event cloud&#8221; may or may not be made up of such streams. I guess its somewhat of an academic discussion, although the need to handle unordered vs ordered events is certainly a valid CEP technology characteristic.<br />
Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Hans</title>
		<link>http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/#comment-410</guid>
		<description>On the terminology question, it is a mathematical fact that every element POSET is composed of chains (which some call TOSETs). If a cloud is a POSET and a stream is a TOSET then every cloud is composed of streams. Ask a mathematician.

But that fact is not useful in any way and the EPTS should have long ago removed POSET and TOSET from their definitions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the terminology question, it is a mathematical fact that every element POSET is composed of chains (which some call TOSETs). If a cloud is a POSET and a stream is a TOSET then every cloud is composed of streams. Ask a mathematician.</p>
<p>But that fact is not useful in any way and the EPTS should have long ago removed POSET and TOSET from their definitions.</p>
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		<title>By: Hans</title>
		<link>http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-409</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/#comment-409</guid>
		<description>&gt; the point I was trying to lead to was that event cloud processing in a cloud computing environment probably is OK for high-latency applications

Oh that most certainly depends on many factors. Certainly cloud computing has its place in processing events, but I would not be so quick to classify it as low or high latency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; the point I was trying to lead to was that event cloud processing in a cloud computing environment probably is OK for high-latency applications</p>
<p>Oh that most certainly depends on many factors. Certainly cloud computing has its place in processing events, but I would not be so quick to classify it as low or high latency.</p>
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		<title>By: vincent</title>
		<link>http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/#comment-408</guid>
		<description>Hi Hans - the point I was trying to lead to was that event cloud processing in a cloud computing environment probably is OK for high-latency applications...

Hi Tim - good catch on terminology... per EPTS...
Event cloud: a partially ordered set of events (poset), either bounded or unbounded, where the partial orderings are imposed by the causal, timing and other relationships between the events.
Notes: 
Typically an event cloud is created by the events produced by one or more distributed systems. 
An event cloud may contain many event types, event streams and event channels. 
The difference between a cloud and a stream is that there is no event relationship that totally orders the events in a cloud.  A stream is a cloud, but the converse is not necessarily true.
CEP usually refers to event processing that assumes an event cloud as input, and thereby can make no assumptions about the arrival order of events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Hans - the point I was trying to lead to was that event cloud processing in a cloud computing environment probably is OK for high-latency applications&#8230;</p>
<p>Hi Tim - good catch on terminology&#8230; per EPTS&#8230;<br />
Event cloud: a partially ordered set of events (poset), either bounded or unbounded, where the partial orderings are imposed by the causal, timing and other relationships between the events.<br />
Notes:<br />
Typically an event cloud is created by the events produced by one or more distributed systems.<br />
An event cloud may contain many event types, event streams and event channels.<br />
The difference between a cloud and a stream is that there is no event relationship that totally orders the events in a cloud.  A stream is a cloud, but the converse is not necessarily true.<br />
CEP usually refers to event processing that assumes an event cloud as input, and thereby can make no assumptions about the arrival order of events.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Bass</title>
		<link>http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Bass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 04:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/#comment-407</guid>
		<description>Hi Paul,

Han's continues to make the mistake of stating that a clould of events (or event cloud) is simply "a bunch of streams".  This is technically incorrect and an oversimplification of complex systems.

Yours sincerely, Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Paul,</p>
<p>Han&#8217;s continues to make the mistake of stating that a clould of events (or event cloud) is simply &#8220;a bunch of streams&#8221;.  This is technically incorrect and an oversimplification of complex systems.</p>
<p>Yours sincerely, Tim</p>
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		<title>By: Hans</title>
		<link>http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/comment-page-1/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tibcoblogs.com/cep/2009/01/20/cloud-event-processing-vs-event-cloud-processing/#comment-406</guid>
		<description>FWIW the terms "cloud of events" and "cloud computing" have some subtleties.

 A cloud of events is really a bunch of streams, maybe multiplexed and maybe distributed. You can't use an event cloud, you always use one or more specific streams that are known a priori. And there are architecture considerations for every single stream that's added to the cloud.

Contrast that to cloud computing where the idea is to have many identical computers, where you do not need to know a priori which one you will use. And adding one computer is the same as adding another (in theory).

And then the event cloud might be delivered by a computing cloud where you do not know in advance which computer will deliver events to a subscriber, but each subscriber knows which events they are looking for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW the terms &#8220;cloud of events&#8221; and &#8220;cloud computing&#8221; have some subtleties.</p>
<p> A cloud of events is really a bunch of streams, maybe multiplexed and maybe distributed. You can&#8217;t use an event cloud, you always use one or more specific streams that are known a priori. And there are architecture considerations for every single stream that&#8217;s added to the cloud.</p>
<p>Contrast that to cloud computing where the idea is to have many identical computers, where you do not need to know a priori which one you will use. And adding one computer is the same as adding another (in theory).</p>
<p>And then the event cloud might be delivered by a computing cloud where you do not know in advance which computer will deliver events to a subscriber, but each subscriber knows which events they are looking for.</p>
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